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Home Forum General 3-bet/4-bet/5-bet game deep stacked

3-bet/4-bet/5-bet game deep stacked
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7:08 pm
March 25, 2010


bigblatch

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Hi, 

Thanks for the great book guys.  My first read through, I honestly don't think I had enough experience/knowledge to understand the concepts, but after digesting it for a few months and re-reading it, it's really all starting to make sense.

My question has to do with how the 3-bet/4-bet/5-bet game changes when effective stacks are deep, 200BB+.

I imagine flat calling the 3-bet with the intent to shove any flop is now no longer a profitable option as you'd be shoving about 190 more BB into about a 35 BB pot (PF raises + c-bet).  Is this option now replaced with a more normal-sized raise?

I'd also guess that a light 4-bet shove is out the window, too.  And with deep stacks, would that also change the small 4-bet strategy?  Seems like you could raise a normal amount and still not be pot committed against a 5-bet.

7:52 pm
March 31, 2010


bigblatch

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I'm going to try to answer my own question just from my own observations watching hand replays from deep stacked high stakes heads up games.

From what I saw, when deep stacked, the 3-bet/4-bet/5-bet game actually turned into something more like the 3-bet/4-bet/…/n-bet game, where the n-1 bet is the one that is pot-committing, and the nth bet is a shove.  Thus, rather than making a small 4-bet, you'd make a small n-1 bet.

I saw this in a hand with Isildur1 against durrrr (I think), where they were both sitting on more than 250 BB.  durrrr raised to 3 BB, Isildur1 3-bet to 9 BB, durrrr 4-bet to 27 BB (full-sized), and Isildur1 then 5-bet small to something like 60 BB.

At this point, the SPR is about the same as a medium-stacked 4-bet hand, and post flop I imagine it would play similarly.

My guess is the main difference is that when deep stacked, you can widen your range for 3-bets and 4-bets, since the stacks are deep enough to still allow for post flop play.  However, each progressive raise further polarizes each player's range to the point where the small n-1 bet is probably KK+ or a bluff when very deep stacked.
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