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3-Betting Light And The 3-Bet, 4-Bet, 5-Bet GAme

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2:38 pm
July 10, 2009


Sh0e

Member

posts 13

Post edited 9:40 pm – July 10, 2009 by Sh0e
Post edited 9:41 pm – July 10, 2009 by Sh0e


Here are some things I jotted down, in first reading this section. Good section!

The Flat Call

Flat-calling a Loose raiser's 3B in POS… and you illustrate an AQ example, and you lay out the $ equity for various actions (as opposed to 4B AI). The most profitable action (when you flat-call preflop vs. Loose raiser) was to push any flop.

 

1)      This is essentially a semi-bluff with overcards, yes?

2)      Do you mean PUSH, IF he checks the flop? Or just shove over his CB? *Later on p.140, it says “shoving the flop any time you catch a piece…”

 

Against A Loose Opponent

The example Villain you give has an 18% 3B #. Is that something you will normally see? (at NL200) While it’s certainly no picnic to play such an opponent, it seems 18% is very unusual, but easier to figure… as opposed to say, a 11% 3B’r.

 

4:07 pm
July 10, 2009


Sunny Mehta

Admin

posts 67

Post edited 11:08 pm – July 10, 2009 by Sunny Mehta


yeah it was assumed that he'd c-bet, so we are talking about pushing over his c-bet.

the example is given mostly to show how surprisingly aggressive you'd wanna play against someone 3-betting 18% and c-betting 100%.  i do NOT think 18% 3b and 100% cb is normal at 1-2, so you can tone down your strategies from there, but mainly keep in mind that fit-or-fold set-mining strategies are not good against light 3-bettors.

4:23 am
February 4, 2010


WantToLearn

Member

posts 11

I´d like to join in here with my questions. It´s the part of page 140 again, where we push over their c-bet any time we catch any piece of the flop, because they are very loose 3bettors and c-bet any flop.

1) When we have bottom pair with a suited connector, well I know technically that is a piece of the flop, but is that good enough, as it can make no hands as strong as a gut shot straight draw can make. Probably yes?

2) Do we really push ace- and king high flops that hit even a very loose 3betting range so very well?

3) When they´re a tiny bit tighter with their 3bets, I feel we kind of get into no man´s land, where the "shove any flop" line doesn´t work but folding not-so-good hands preflop hurts us as well, as they are too tight for the former but too loose for the latter. There must be a way to handle this at least if we have position; yet I can´t find it.

ty

10:43 am
February 4, 2010


Sunny Mehta

Admin

posts 67

Want To Learn,

It'd probably be better if you posted a specific hand. The answers to your questions depend a ton on relevant details.

-S

3:12 pm
February 4, 2010


WantToLearn

Member

posts 11

Post edited 3:14 pm – February 4, 2010 by WantToLearn


Ok, so here´s a hand.

The game is NL50 full ring.

The hero plays a 17/15 style, is stealing a ton, but his fold to 3bet is very high. It has come to the hero´s attention that this is getting exploited even by regs  who don´t like to get out of line.

The villain plays 13/11, but we have confirmed that he is a 3bet bully when facing a steal raise from people who clearly steal very very much. 3bets out of the blinds ~13% of the time in general, and keeps chain 3betting the hero. For simplicity´s sake, let´s assume he´s 3betting hero 18% of the time.

Effective stacks 100bb. Folded to Hero in CO who raises 4bb with 87s.

Villain is in the big blind and 3bets to  12bb. Hero calls, trying to apply the "shove any piece" strategy. Flop comes A73. Pot is 25bb. Villain c-bets 15bb.

(replace the ace with a king – does it change anything? What if there are two facecards? we still have a piece. What if villain 3bets say 13% of the time?)

11:45 am
February 16, 2010


Sunny Mehta

Admin

posts 67

WantToLearn,

Finding general heuristics for dealing with these situations is difficult because the math can get extremely complex. My advice to you is to take one hand at a time, consider your opponent's range at every step of the decisionmaking process, then plug the range into Pokerstove and think about what different counter-actions would work well based on the numbers you see.

Make sense?

-S

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