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a big hand from .25/.50 -.10 ante….critique please

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1:00 pm
September 13, 2010


mullethaiku

Member

posts 96

Online at Stars- 6 MAX NLHE- 25 cent/ 50 cent- (10 cent ante)

Villain- $120

Me- $128

Folded around to the Villain on the button. (I did not have too previous hands on him..he seemed somewhat loose on first impression..but I have no hard evidence at this point)

Preflop:

Villain opens for $1.50 from the button. I flat call in the small blind with 44. Big blind folds. The few hands I had on this villain, showed he may have some loose passive/calling station tendencies, so I decided against a 3-bet here since I did not have much information on him, my fold equity may be low, and I did not want to build a big pot out of position with a low vulnerable pair, so I call. Pot is roughly $3.75.

Flop:

Flop comes 10-4-6 rainbow. I hit bottom set. I check assuming as the preflop raiser, he'll almost always c-bet here, villain bets $2.50. I flat call hoping he'll fire again on the turn. Pot is $8.75.

Turn:

Turn is another 10. Board is now 10-4-6-10. I now have a full house. With no legit flush or straight draws on the board, I decide to check again, with the intention of check raising, assuming he may fire again, especially if he has trip10s now. I check, he bets $5. I checkraise to $16. He calls. As far as Villain's hand range at this point, I rule out pocket 6's, or quad 10s (or at least I assume against those hands, I'm probably going to lose my stack regardless of how I play)  More realistically, I now put him on a decent 10 hand like A10, K10, Q10, J10, or 910. All of these make sense for an aggressive player to open with from the button in an online 6-max game, and that range definitely make sense to flat call my turn checkraise. Pot is $41.

River:

River is an A. So final board is 10-4-6-10-A. No straight or flush draws. We both have roughly $100 stacks left. The ace scares me a little, but I still decide to bet out $25 for value, thinking if I check, he may check behind with a vulnerable trip 10 hand like J10, Q10 or 109 since I checkraised the turn. My thinking was with those hands, that Villain would likely have to call my $25 river bet. Instead, Villain shoves all in for his last $100. So the pot is now $166, and I have $75 left, so I'm getting a little better than 2-1 on a call. I think for a long time and put him on either K10, Q10, J10, or 109…all of which I have beat…. or A10 and a rivered full house. I end up calling, and he shows A-10 for the river rape full house.

Should this have been a clear river fold without much info on my opponent? I don't mind the way I played the rest of the hand, and I don't think it would've mattered anyways, since he would have likely called a turn shove anyway with trip 10s Ace kicker, then hitting an 8 outer on the river.

Thoughts?

10:13 am
September 22, 2010


Sean

Guest

I don't see a fold on the river given the way you played the hand. Just an unfortunate river for you.

I can see a different way of playing the hand, however. With villain opening from the button in a 6 max game, I would put him on a wide range. Pocket fours are likely the best hand preflop so I would 3-bet him. Simply calling tends to lead to fit or fold play on the flop depending on whether you hit your set. Be aggressive! Take the pot from him. Hitting your set is a nice back up plan.

Also, I would not slowplay your set. Bet and raise, get more money in that pot early on.

It's not bad the way you played it, just a little on the passive side. Final point, if on the turn you put him on trip 10's, why not shove it all in there? I mean had he called you would still would have been sucked out on the river but at least you're getting it in good. :)  Hope this helps. Keep grindin'!

11:06 am
September 22, 2010


pkrgod

Guest

Post edited 11:25 am – September 22, 2010 by pkrgod


You definitely played the hand passively (poorly). Remember, aggressive poker is winning poker.

You CALLED on 3 out of the 4 streets! Seriously, that is NOT aggressive (winning) poker. Stop checking and calling. Bet and raise!

9:56 am
September 23, 2010


Ed Miller

Admin

posts 112

Flat calling preflop is good.

I'm not folding the river getting the odds you were getting with a hand that strong. Though obviously there's always some concern getting raised on the river by a loose-passive unless I  have the stone cold.

Given that you said your opponent has loose-passive tendencies, I would have taken the betting lead much earlier in the hand. Loose-passive players call more than they bet, so with a hand that strong I'm going for value early in the hand. Depending on how likely I think he is to c-bet the flop, I would check-raise the flop or even just bet out, planning to lead the turn and the river also.

10:20 am
September 23, 2010


mullethaiku

Member

posts 96

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you guys to an extent. However, my "passiveness" was mostly intentional, and had alot to do with being out of position, not having a good read on this opponent yet, and the fact he was c-betting often in position (which he did) so I was just letting him hang himself but got unlucky.  

Think about it, if he missed that lucky river (I was an 84% fav to win after the turn) he probably ends up having to call my $25 river bet with his top set-top kicker. (A-10) Which would have won me a $91 pot roughly. ($45 profit roughly) This big win would have happened 4 out of 5 times on the river when he misses that full house, but has trip 10s good kicker with no straight or flush draws.

Lets say I 3 bet preflop, he either folds with A-10 off, suspecting I my have a bigger ace or a high pair, and I only win $2 or so. Or he flat calls the 3 bet (likely) Lets say I then got aggressive like you say, and checkraised the flop, he still probably calls with top pair top kicker heads up in position on a non drawing board (flop was 10-4-6 rainbow) so I don't have any fold equity there anyway. Then when he hit top set-ace kicker on the turn, he's likely not folding to an all-in shove from me anyway, with no draws out there. So the hand would have ended up the same regardless of my postflop aggression. At least the way I actually played it, I could have gotten away from the hand on  river. ( I strongly considered folding because it kind of felt like he had A-10, I just had too good of odds to fold)

Overall, your suggestion of more aggression is correct as a general rule, but I wanted you to know the reason for my more passive play IN THIS HAND. This particular seemed a little loose, and seemed to c-bet often in position, so I let him. If he was bluffing, or had a marginal hand, if I get too aggressive, I scare him off, and get very little value from my set. I took a shot for a big payoff, and was very close to getting it, and would like get paid off huge 4 out of 5 times, so I don't mind my play too much since I don't think it would have changed the outcome IN THIS HAND.

10:30 am
September 23, 2010


mullethaiku

Member

posts 96

By the way…I guess I would more accurately classify the villain as just a "loose" player…he had both calling station and LAG tendencies in the few hands I had…(maybe 15 hands or so) His "call open raise" stat was high..and I remember his turn and river c-bet were also high.(hence my postflop checks/checkraises) …but his fold to c-bet numbers were very low also…so he was just loose in general…he called alot..but also bet alot.

10:48 am
September 23, 2010


mullethaiku

Member

posts 96

pkrgod said:

You definitely played the hand passively (poorly). Remember, aggressive poker is winning poker.

You CALLED on 3 out of the 4 streets! Seriously, that is NOT aggressive (winning) poker. Stop checking and calling. Bet and raise!


Although I agree with some of your comments. You accessment is a little off… I did call preflop and on the flop ( mind you…with a set, on a dry board, out of position, heads up, against a loose player with a wide hand range at that point, who c-bet often) But I then check raised the turn, and led out with a 3/4 pot bet on the river. ( so really 2 agg plays and 2 "passive" plays) The early passive plays were really just to exploit my opponent's tendencies to c-bet. (which he did)

 (and then called an all in with a full house and better than 2-1 odds)

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a big hand from .25/.50 -.10 ante….critique please

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