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Best stats for post flop play?

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11:44 am
January 29, 2010


gogogadget

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Post edited 8:07 pm – January 29, 2010 by gogogadget


 I have Holdem Manager and play full ring micro stakes at Full Tilt. What are the best stats to have on my HUD for good post flop play? Aggression factor, Aggression percentage, or both? Street by street or overall? Went to showdown? Won $ at showdown? Both? All of these? None of these? Others?

1:28 pm
January 29, 2010


mullethaiku

Member

posts 84

gogogadget said:

 I have Holdem Manager and play micro stakes at Full Tilt. What are the best stats to have on my HUD for good post flop play? Aggression factor, Aggression percentage, or both? Street by street or overall? Went to showdown? Won $ at showdown? Both? All of these? None of these? Others?


Most prefer a simple HUD setup…..generally something like:

VPIP/ Preflop Raise %/ Aggression factor/ C-bet %/ fold to C-bet %. 

Having VPIP and Preflop raise % first and second is very helpful, because it tells alot about an opponent's style, and this is also how opponents are categorized in SSNLHE and other books (64/5 player limps under the gun, etc)

I use a few more stats than most on mine (I mainly play 6max, so I have alot of room on my computer screen, so I'll have 2 lines of stats-color coated for distinction)

My current one is probably too "busy", but it works for me as I see alot of the same opponents over and over in my games, and I am still learning, so I need all the edge I can get. Laugh

Here is my set up…

VPIP/PFR/called flop bet/ agg factor/ steal %/ fold to steal%/ 3 bet%/ fold to 3 bet %

 # of hands played/ c-bet%/ fold to c-bet %/ hands won at showdown/ and bb/100

 

# of hands played  is very important to add since HUD stats won't be as useful if you only played a few hands with an opponent. 50+ hands should give you a good idea of their style.


..for postflop specific stats… you could also try these to look for betting patterns-   bet flop/ bet turn/ bet river as well as fold to flop bet/ fold to turn bet/ fold to river bet


11:25 pm
January 29, 2010


gogogadget

Guest

Thanks for the reply mullethaiku. Good stuff.

On my HUD, I have VP$IP, PFR, 3bet, fold to 3bet, ats, fts, cbet, and fcbet. 

On page 51 of the book, the authors mention using easier to interpret stats based on street by street play. Which stats are they referring to? Some of the more esoteric stats need a large sample to become meaningful. I'm just wondering how realistic it is to have so many stats at the micro stakes tables where there are sooooo many players. Since the authors don't recommend using AF, I'm wondering what post flop aggression stat(s) do they recommend?


Thanks.

8:17 am
February 2, 2010


mullethaiku

Member

posts 84

gogogadget said:

Thanks for the reply mullethaiku. Good stuff.

On my HUD, I have VP$IP, PFR, 3bet, fold to 3bet, ats, fts, cbet, and fcbet. 

On page 51 of the book, the authors mention using easier to interpret stats based on street by street play. Which stats are they referring to? Some of the more esoteric stats need a large sample to become meaningful. I'm just wondering how realistic it is to have so many stats at the micro stakes tables where there are sooooo many players. Since the authors don't recommend using AF, I'm wondering what post flop aggression stat(s) do they recommend?


Thanks.


Unfortunately you'll need a lot of hands on a player to really pick up on postflop patterns/aggression. I'm sure there are some very specific HUD stats for this, but I have found these 6 basic stats work pretty well:

bet flop/ bet turn/ bet river/fold to flop bet/ fold to turn bet/ fold to river bet

This will give a street by street breakdown of how often they bet and fold. With a decent number of hands, you'll start to see patterns. Some villains will be very passive on certain streets. For example, sometimes you will see a player with a very high bet flop %, but a very low bet turn %. You can beat these players often by floating, flat call the flop c-bet, then come in with a big bet with they check the turn. If they uncharacteristically bet the turn, they are probably strong and you can usually safely fold.

The fold to flop bet/ fold to turn bet/ fold to river bet  stats really help you to spot player types like calling stations and knits right away.

Example: Calling stations will have very low numbers on fold to flop bet/ fold to turn bet/ fold to river.  You will also start to notice specifics, like maybe one station will never fold on the river, or maybe they fold more on the turn than any other street.

Example: Tight knits will have very high numbers on fold to flop bet/ fold to turn bet/ fold to river. You will also start to notice specifics, like maybe one knit will fold to almost every flop bet, so c-bet him ruthlessly, but if he calls or raises, watch out, he probably has a very strong hand.

This will help your find a betting line that works postflop.

6:14 pm
February 2, 2010


gogogadget

Guest

I have found these 6 basic stats work pretty well:

bet flop/ bet turn/ bet river/fold to flop bet/ fold to turn bet/ fold to river bet


It's funny you mention these. These are the exact 6 post-flop stats I settled on. I have these 6 on one line with vpip and pfr on the top line. Simple yet effective for me. Thanks again for the feedback.

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