| User | Post |
|
9:54 pm
January 11, 2010
|
Mark Paff
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
How does it make you feel to know that you contribute to the degeneracy of many people's lives?
http://www.cbssports.com/colum…..y/10250057
|
|
|
8:15 am
January 12, 2010
|
the Man
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
|
8:55 am
January 12, 2010
|
mullethaiku
| | |
| Member | posts 96 | |
|
|
I hate feeding trolls…but I can't resist…
Dearest Mark,
I agree that gambling addiction can be a major problem, especially for those with addictive personalties. However, gambling addiction pales in comparison to the tens of thousands of people who were promised riches and prosperity in the stock market and mortgage industry, only to be screwed over later. (not to mention dozens of other industries) Just because these leaches in these industries wear a tie to work, collect a 401k, and are considered upstanding members of society, does not mean they are not crooks and degenerates on a much higher level than card players.
Also, don't be so quick to lump poker in with other gambling activities. Horse tracks, dog tracks, sports betting, craps, roullette, blackjack, slots, lottery all favor the house greatly and more about blind luck than skill. Compared to all other gambling activities, poker requires a higher level of skill and intelligence to succeed.
I will agree the WSOP is a bad example of skill. Due to the sheer size of the fields, you will see a lot of amatuers get lucky and win 1 tournament. However, this book is about playing cash games, not tournaments. Cash game poker takes a great level of skill to succeed.
Poker is simply a microcosm for capitalism. There is a little difference between someone who risks it all opening their own business with dreams of making millions, only to lose it all, and a poker player taking a shot and going broke. What about someone who is conned into investments, promised riches, only to be scammed out of all of their money? These things happen every day in EVERY industry in a capitalist economy. The only difference is in poker and gambling it is more out in the open. I find it kind of ironic that in so called "respectable" professions, people get screwed over all the time without even knowing it. At least in poker you know the risk involved when you sit at the table. You know it's warfare, you know the intentions of everyone at the table. That level of honesty and openness is rare in most business dealings.
Of course gambling addiction is a problem, but in the grand scheme of things right now, I would not consider it a major problem. Don't believe me…go ask your neighbors who are foreclosing because they were financially raped by a mortgage broker. THAT is part of the reason the world economy is in the toilet, not a poker game.
To be fair, I certainly hope you are also visiting message boards for stock trading and the mortage industry with your trolling.
Hugs and Kisses,
Mullethaiku
|
|
|
11:52 am
January 12, 2010
|
Matt Flynn
| | |
| Admin
| posts 114 | |
|
|
Post edited 8:05 pm – January 12, 2010 by Matt Flynn
Post edited 8:07 pm – January 12, 2010 by Matt Flynn
Hi Mark,
Doesn't bother me a bit.
It is far, far worse to contribute to brain damage and shortened brain life expectancy of teenage men who are by fact of age not mature enough to understand what they are doing to themselves. Being a football coach in full knowledge of current understanding of concussions and reduced brain life expectancy is immoral. Supporting football by watching it is immoral. In fact a great deal of what we do would be considered immoral by many if examined closely enough. So if fingers are being pointed, let's start with that and work out to lesser issues like losing money.
As for gambling, let me know what everyone who owns a casino or casino stock or runs a poker game or supports them by frequenting them has to say before you come to me. Don't forget everyone who make or sells alcohol or cigarettes, or supports the industries by buying alcohol or cigarettes. And don't forgot anyone who makes or sells anything for consumption that contains known toxins like trans fats. What about sugar? That is a major cause of diabetes and obesity in the U.S. Are corn growers immoral because they produce corn syrup?
btw I believe the world would be a better place if gambling did not exist, but it does exist, and I believe in personal freedom.
Matt
|
|
|
2:28 pm
January 12, 2010
|
Mark Paff
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
Post edited 10:47 pm – January 12, 2010 by Mark Paff
The fact that you posted a reply makes me think it does bother you one bit. If I am wrong about that, however, then you really have no conscience. Some of the other things you mentioned certainly are harmful. Does that really make you feel better?
Instead of seeking refuge in an "everybody's doing it mentality", why don't you consider taking an alternate path and stop contributing to the destruction of people's lives?
|
|
|
3:23 pm
January 12, 2010
|
Matt Flynn
| | |
| Admin
| posts 114 | |
|
|
I am responding to you as I would speak to a peer, not to someone who still sees the world in black and white. This may be a mistake.
I do not agree that writing a poker book means I have no conscience, just because that book might contribute to someones' degenerate gambling. By such a definition, no one has a conscience. Every time you buy a cup of Starbucks instead of donating to an orphanage in Darfur, you are putting your petty desires above others' lives. You are harming someone by your actions and inactions. Morally, writing a poker book, which may or may not encourage someone to delude themselves into degenerate gambling (a stretch because it assumes, a priori, that that person would NOT have a gambling problem without the book), is a much less serious moral crime than buying that Starbucks. With the book, someone still has to make a lot of personal choices that lead to desperation and bankruptcy. With the Starbucks, some orphan dies because you wanted fancy coffee.
If you respond again, try to be courteous.
|
|
|
4:48 pm
January 12, 2010
|
Mark Paff
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
Post edited 2:02 am – January 13, 2010 by Mark Paff
Again, you are hiding behind the excuse that since there's so much immorality in the world, a little more isn't a problem. Well, I assure you it is a problem. Gambling is a huge destructive force in this country. You are an active part of that. Think about that.
You said that you believe the world would be a better place if gambling did not exist. While you don't have the power to end gambling, you certainly do have the power to avoid writing books that widen its devastating scope.
|
|
|
1:52 pm
January 13, 2010
|
mullethaiku
| | |
| Member | posts 96 | |
|
|
Mark,
Your efforts and time would probably be better used elsewhere. You should be contacting gambling websites and casino owners, they are the real villains. Why bother with a small messageboard for an e-book about poker strategy? Getting on Matt's case about the gambling addiction problem in this country, is like blaming your local pharmacy checkout clerk for the national health care crisis. Stop being an idiot.
Hate to tell you, but gambling and especially poker are as American as apple pie. The vast majority of poker players are fairly intelligent people who do not have gambling addictions. This includes many of our Presidents, top CEOs, and a large portion of our armed forces enjoy poker as a hobby while deployed. Most of us are recreational players who are in control, and do it for fun. How much $$$ have you spent on your hobbies in your life Mark?
Mark let me ask you another question…have you ever had an alcoholic beverage in your life? Ever eaten a disgustingly delicious donut? You do realize we have MAJOR problems in this country right now with alcohol abuse and obesity. So by your rationale….we should also not partake in the occassional beer or cheeseburger either right? I mean we are the world leader in drunk driving deaths, and alcohol related domestic violence. We are also the most obese country on Earth, with kids developing heart problems and diabetes as pre teens, and our obese adults are causing a major problems with health care costs for their families, the taxpayers and their employers, thus depeting our health care system. So we should shut down Budweiser and Dunkin Donuts right? Are these not bigger problems than gambling addiction?
Despite these facts, the great majority of society is responsible, and only drink alcohol and eat in moderation. So why can't I have a beer or the occasional ice cream if I'm responsible? The same applies to poker players, the majority of us are responsible. Your gambling addiction argument would apply to a small % of gamblers, and an even smaller % of poker players (the vast majority of "degenerate" gamblers can be found in non poker casinos games and sports betting)
So Mark.. unless you can honestly tell us, you've never competed in the business world to get ahead and make $$, you volunteer 100% of your time to charity, give 100% of your money to charity, grow and eat your own organic food, and you've never drank an alcoholic beverage in your life, then shut your mouth. You are part of the machine like everyone else, so who are you to judge? Stop being a douchebag.
Ironically, in one sense, Matt's book is actually helping the average card player combat the real enemy in your argument, the casinos and gambling sites! That should be your target, not card players, the majority of which are responsible.
|
|
|
3:34 pm
January 21, 2010
|
jdk050507
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
 mark is a homo.
|
|
|
1:11 pm
January 24, 2010
|
the Man
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
Post edited 9:15 pm – January 24, 2010 by the Man
Post edited 9:22 pm – January 24, 2010 by the Man
Again, you are hiding behind the excuse that since there's so much immorality in the world, a little more isn't a problem. Well, I assure you it is a problem. Gambling is a huge destructive force in this country. You are an active part of that. Think about that.
Gambling in and of itself is neither good nor evil.
You only choose to cite the instances where people become addicted to gambling.
Many people also participate in gambling… and do so in a responsible manner. Does that make gambling evil? Not by a long shot. Also, the gambling industry provides livelihoods for thousands of people, providing an economic benefit to the community.
Only someone as ignorant and morally arrogant as you would presume to make a moral judgment on gambling for the rest of us.
Get a clue. Dumbshit.
|
|
|
9:21 am
January 25, 2010
|
jheat
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
Lol, yeah and many people also participate in drug dealing. That's not a problem since it provides "economic benefit to the community", right? Lol
|
|
|
12:28 pm
January 25, 2010
|
the Man
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
Post edited 8:29 pm – January 25, 2010 by the Man
Lol, yeah and many people also participate in drug dealing. That's not a problem since it provides "economic benefit to the community", right? Lol
Who said anything about dealing drugs as being okay? I sure didn't.
Idiot.
|
|
|
1:11 pm
January 25, 2010
|
mullethaiku
| | |
| Member | posts 96 | |
|
|
jheat said:Lol, yeah and many people also participate in drug dealing. That's not a problem since it provides "economic benefit to the community", right? Lol
jheat your drug dealing comparison is ridiculous…by "economic benefit to the community" he was referring to the LEGAL economic benefits. Such as casino employees, gambling websites, professionial poker players, authors, horse tracks, dog tracks etc. This is all 100% legal, taxable income helping their communities. In Nevada, California, Atlantic City, and the South American and European casino towns, the gambling industry is a HUGE source of economic livelihood for the entire community. In some cases the only livelihood. Not to mention how it has helped the otherwise poor Native American reservations in the US. It many cases, casino work it is their only source of steady income to put food on their table.
Also, the US Government may soon pass legislation legalizing and regulating online poker, which could be a vital souce of extra income for our struggling government and economy.
…and the poker community also is a part of some fantastic charity work that goes largely unnoticed. Look up Barry Greenstein, who gives most of his poker tournament winning to underpriveliged chirldren around the world. World Series Main Event winners Jerry Yang and Jamie Gold have also done some great charity work, along with Phil Hellmuth, Annie Duke, and Phil Gordon. "Ante Up for Africa" and "Bad Beat on Cancer" are a fewe examples.
|
|
|
5:33 pm
January 25, 2010
|
UglyGrump
| | |
| Member | posts 7 | |
|
|
People with an addiction to gambling that tends towards self destruction are addicted to losing. They live on the edge as they seek the elation and despair of going too far.
They desire the adrenaline rush of the big swings, not the tedium of playing tight and folding when you don't have the right odds.
The degenerates aren't reading this book. If they were, they wouldn't be degenerates.
|
|
|
8:05 am
January 26, 2010
|
mullethaiku
| | |
| Member | posts 96 | |
|
|
UglyGrump said:
People with an addiction to gambling that tends towards self destruction are addicted to losing. They live on the edge as they seek the elation and despair of going too far.
They desire the adrenaline rush of the big swings, not the tedium of playing tight and folding when you don't have the right odds.
The degenerates aren't reading this book. If they were, they wouldn't be degenerates.
Good point Grump. I would equate good poker players who study the game, with great material like this E-book, with stock investors who study the market. They study the best plays and then take calculated risks in hopes of showing profit. Generally speaking, calculated risk is the heart of capitalism and part of what keeps the free market economy running.
America itself was a gamble. The founding fathers and immigrants took a calculated risk to better their lives by coming here. So it does not suprise me that poker and gambling is engrained in our culture. American at competitve risktakers, otherwise there would be no America. But like any activity that people enjoy, it can be abusive and destructive when not done in moderation.
Most of the people on this board (besided the trolls) are not wild gamblers seeking a thrill. They are students of poker trying to learn the game and show a profit. Unlike big poker tournaments, cash game poker (which is what is taught in this book) is more like running your own business, than it is wildly playing craps at a casino.
|
|
Login
Search 
Home
Print this Post 
Add a New Topic
Reply to Post
Quote and Reply 
Topic RSS 
