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1:28 am
July 16, 2009


Ratboy

Belgium

Member

posts 6

Hey!

I'm a winning player at FR NL10 and NL25. To improve overall I want to start playing 6max as well. I heard about this book and am realy interested but will it be interesting for a NL10/25 player? For the moment I play basic abc poker with succes at FR. Are the concepts not to 'advanced' for the players I'll play against in 6max 10NL/25NL or just not applicable or does the book also gives a good base to start playing 6max as well (like first chapters) and will give the opportunity to improve faster?

4:12 am
July 16, 2009


Rocketfingers

Guest

ABC poker is good to beat the micro stakes games but in a though 50NL you can't show up with a very good winrate with a limited strategy (not talking about higher stakes). If you study the book hard you will learn how to beat 1/2$ and ofcourse you can crush everithing under 1/2. The concepts are advanced and big part of the book is chalenging to read, because every word worth gold. I can only recommend this book to you, its the best book I'h ever read. The bottomline is: buy the book, study the book, and then watch your winrate going up like a spacerocket :D

8:52 am
July 16, 2009


Ratboy

Belgium

Member

posts 6

Ok, I'm sure the book is worth a lot on the long term for me and all the small stakes players but is it usefull to try to play another strategy on the NL10 tables then abc-poker? It's just that most of the time i try to do a 'fancy' play, it doesn't work just because a lot of these players call almost everything or bet 'strange' with mini-raises all over the place, a lot of limpers every hand. I just play sets or good draws postflop if I can see the next cards cheap cus there's almost always someone in the hand who has at least 2 pair in the end.

My question basicly is: if I try to play like instructed in the book, will it help me in short term to crush the NL10 even better or do I better wait until I have a bankroll to try to play NL50 because the other payers will be better overall.


3:00 pm
July 16, 2009


RML604

Member

posts 28

MrOSus said:

My question basicly is: if I try to play like instructed in the book, will it help me in short term to crush the NL10 even better or do I better wait until I have a bankroll to try to play NL50 because the other payers will be better overall.



I also play 10NL and I would say that this book does apply, but some sections apply more than others.  You're going to be facing way more 60/15 type players than you probably would at 50NL, so you'll want to pay extra attention to anything that talks about those types of players, but everything is still relevant.  I come across players who play 8/7, 80/5, and everything inbetween, but having a couple 60/15 players at the same table isn't uncommon, so there's some stuff in the book that's more relevant to my game than others.

Profiling your opponents and exploiting their tendencies based on said profile will work until players stop falling under such predictible profiles.

Let me know if you ever want to do a sweat session and we can talk about some of this while we play.

8:05 am
July 17, 2009


jdk050507

Member

posts 13

Post edited 3:06 pm – July 17, 2009 by jdk050507
Post edited 3:07 pm – July 17, 2009 by jdk050507


I may be able to help some.  Before I read this book, i played a VERY Straightforward at 10NL FR, averaging 3.3 BB per 100 hands over a very long time/hand sample.  This was wtih no players stats and using the concepts in PNLHE V1. 


Using this e-book so far……studying and applying the concepts a little at a time……, I have moved up to 20NL FR and have been averaging (over a small hand sample, mind you) well over 10BB per 100 hands. 

Just based on my experience (and please disagree with me but tell me why!)…..I think your better off sticking to Full Ring and working your way up sticking to full ring………and THEN switching over to 6-max if you want.  This is just my opinion and based on my own experience………its seems to be better for me………as I don't seem to have a grip on 6-max yet. 

However, the concepts in this book are golden and THEY DO WORK ………but it takes allot of time and effort………..first to study the material……….then to apply it to your game. 


Like I said, I am just a micro player BUT I have moved up a level and applied these concepts……..and I'm not making a living playing 20NL obviously, but I make money and have fun doing it on my own schedule and own time. 

One thing this book has been helping me with allot is stealing, and selective aggression to steal pots. 

One thing I can say is golden at the lower levels like 20 NL FR is blind stealing.  I cleanly steal the blinds almost once per round on average……especially because there are allot of weak-tight-passive tables at 20NL FR. 

I have been running good, so I'm just hoping I can weather any storm when it comes. 

-Jdk

Jdk050507

10:08 am
July 17, 2009


Rocketfingers

Guest

Did you play 6 max ever? When I was playing 10NL I also played only FR but then I switched to 6 max and from that day I never played FR again. :D Okay it was not so dramatic. On 6 max you get a lot more hands, and with that more chance to generate edge over your opponents. If you play in weak passive games then 6 max is far more superior to FR IMO because you can steal a lot more pre-flop. Next con to 6-max is players at 10NL likely can't adjust to 6 max and play tightly pre and post flop. Ofcourse if you are a losing player you lose more in an hour at 6 max, but learning costs money anyway. Next if it happens to be a fish in the game you have more chance to stack him compared to FR.

10:18 am
July 17, 2009


RML604

Member

posts 28

I started playing SnG's, then switched to FR cash, and now play 6max cash, and I have to say my game has improved so much more during my run at 6max.  You find yourself in so many difficult situations in 6max that you just don't see as often in full ring because I feel like ranges are more defined in full ring.  And you are playing so many more hands with the same people, you can really get to know your opponents better, play more hands with them in the same amount of time, and pound on them.  Plus, I hate playing nit poker because I find it boring, so I could never go back to FR because I just find it too boring and it doesn't give me the room to play a 28/26 style or so.


With that said, this book will still help your FR game.  I just feel like if you really want to get good at profiling opponents and exploiting them, playing more hands (both # of hands dealt and your actual holdings) against fewer opponents would be the way to do that.


Also, I play 6max 10NL, and for the first time ever, my "Won money without going to showdown" line has been positive in my last few sessions, and this is a direct result of stealing more/raising more against weak opponents/overall aggression, all of which came from this book.

9:25 am
July 23, 2009


JimmyG

New Member

posts 2

Post edited 4:26 pm – July 23, 2009 by JimmyG


MrOSus said:

Ok, I'm sure the book is worth a lot on the long term for me and all the small stakes players but is it usefull to try to play another strategy on the NL10 tables then abc-poker? It's just that most of the time i try to do a 'fancy' play, it doesn't work just because a lot of these players call almost everything or bet 'strange' with mini-raises all over the place, a lot of limpers every hand. I just play sets or good draws postflop if I can see the next cards cheap cus there's almost always someone in the hand who has at least 2 pair in the end.

My question basicly is: if I try to play like instructed in the book, will it help me in short term to crush the NL10 even better or do I better wait until I have a bankroll to try to play NL50 because the other payers will be better overall.



Here is my take on your question on utilizing advanced concepts in 10nl games. In NLHE Theory and Practice on authored by Miller and Sklansky, on page 171 concerning multiple level thinking they state:

"If your opponent doesn't think on the second level, then your third level won't be applicable."

Are the 10nl games you're sitting in have opponents capable of thinking on the second level or higher? The average 10nl player are generally thinking on a zero level, "What cards do I hold?" and not necessarily, "What cards do my opponent hold?". Moreso, they're certainly not thinking, "What cards does my opponent think I hold?"

As you gravitate upwards in limits, these advanced concepts will become more mainstay in your games. At the 10nl I would offer to you: remain ABC, build your bankroll, develop good decision making processes, develop hand reading abilities and then climb the ranks as your bankroll allows.

JimmyG


9:29 am
July 24, 2009


Hitman

Member

posts 62

Post edited 4:30 pm – July 24, 2009 by Hitman


ABC poker works at the smallest of stakes because the opponents aren't sophisticated enough to exploit it, and continue to give you edge.  ABC poker doesn't work against more sophisticated opponents because they're able to determine what you're doing and squash you like a bug with proper adjustments.


The book is filled with stuff you will need to know moving up.  There are sections where they address adjustments vs. weak players of various kinds, and adjustments vs. strong players.  The adjustments vs. strong players won't be too relevant to a 10NL player yet.  The adjustments to the weak players will be, as that's your playing population largely.  So I would say that some of this book will be relevant immediately, and all of it will be relevant eventually. 


You certainly don't need this book to ABC off 10NL, but as jdk's post says, the relevant parts of this book will help you make adjustments from ABC poker to increase your win rate vs. the weaker players you're frequently up against.

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