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Premium hands early position

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11:45 am
February 25, 2010


snowbound

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Is raising with premium hands in early position really such a good idea? When I raise hands like AA-JJ, and AK in early position everyone very often folds and I'm left with picking up the blinds. Hands like those WANT a showdown, so wouldn't it be better to limp and then re-raise if someone behind me raises? I realize the danger is that no one will raise and I'll be in a multiway pot with a big pocket pair which is not good. I'm willing to let the hand go though if I don't get to put in a preflop re-raise.


The goal of poker is to induce people to make mistakes based on the cards you're holding. I think raising preflop with premium cards in early position gives away too much info.

1:42 pm
February 25, 2010


Rocketfingers

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snowbound said:

Is raising with premium hands in early position really such a good idea? When I raise hands like AA-JJ, and AK in early position everyone very often folds and I'm left with picking up the blinds. Hands like those WANT a showdown, so wouldn't it be better to limp and then re-raise if someone behind me raises? I realize the danger is that no one will raise and I'll be in a multiway pot with a big pocket pair which is not good. I'm willing to let the hand go though if I don't get to put in a preflop re-raise.


The goal of poker is to induce people to make mistakes based on the cards you're holding. I think raising preflop with premium cards in early position gives away too much info.

 Advantages of raising pre-flop early position with premiums:

  • You build the pot with the likely best hand
    • Notice who calls with a worse hand makes a mistake
  • You deminish some of their positional advantage
  • A bit subtle is about value betting, b/c its lot harder out of position so youl want to start it pre-flop.
  • By limping you give implied odds to pocket pairs and suited connectors
  • If you open raise enough hands early than it dosen't give away too much info
  • IMO limp raising gives away much more info and also harder to balance
    • If you try this with a 20% range than good players will raise you let you call than  you play out of position in a medium sized pot where your opponent knows you can have a lot of hands.

4:23 pm
February 27, 2010


Rocketfingers

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snowbound said:

The goal of poker is to induce people to make mistakes based on the cards you're holding.

I think you misunderstand the theory of mistakes. First usually you don't induce mistakes, you just offer the opportunity to your opponents to make a mistake. For example you bet half pot with a full on a drawy flop, if your oponent calls with a flushdraw than he made a mistake. But he can also fold so you can only offer him a chance to make a mistake.

Why I don't like the word inducing here is b/c if I "induce" you to make an $80 mistake and this induction costs me a $100 than thats not a good deal.

Also notice that there can be huge differences between mistakes. Calling a turn bet where you get 1 to 3 on your flush draw and your opponent will insta muck when you make a flush is a mistake but a small one. Calling any turn bet where you are drawing dead is a huge mistake. It's even more confusing when it mixed up by percentages. Whats better to offer your opponet a mistake what he will make 10% and you make on that $50 (EV:$5) or a mistake he makes 5% but you make $200 on that (EV: $10). Ofcourse the 2nd one is far better.

9:15 am
February 28, 2010


Jamleeco

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Snowbound, I feel what you are saying.  Taking down the blinds with big hands is deflating, but so is getting stacked with a big hand.

   I almost never limp EP with AA or KK to RR unless lucky enough to manuever maniac into my immediate left. I will chance it then , especailly if some of your tablemates understand that he is , then you can expect several smooth callers and sometimes a squeezer before it gets back to you, or one 3 bettor pot when it gets back to you. But otherwise, you are losing money by doing this.

  I go by how the table is playing. If EP raises are mostly taking the blinds I widen my range quite a bit EP , until it stops working. In the meantime, your EP raises start getting a lot less respect, and now you can bang away with those premium hands EP.

Limp reraising pretty much tells any non-brain-dead opp. what you have. sometimes , because I never do that, I will limp, reraise with AKo, sometimes less, depending on who raises my limp and what position. I don't mind taking down a raised pot uncontested PF and also will call and trap AQ,AJ, KQs for a decent amount of money. And remember, most opponents, even when you just call instead of fold , will think you are getting tricky with AA or KK and you can make some nice OOP bluffs, bluff cr's and the like.

So, I'm not as articulate as the authors. Guess what I'm saying is limp RR'ing is not the way to adjust to not getting played back at but yes, you should be adjusting to how the table is playing, always.
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