| User | Post |
|
8:43 pm
July 5, 2009
|
amw25
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
I have read this book and must warn people that, quite frankly, the methods do not work. I do believe that they worked at one time (years ago) but applying these methods in today's game you will lose your shirt. The book is NOT worth $100, nor even $40. There's really nothing special here as nearly everyone I talk to knows about player profiling software, c-betting, turn barreling, isolating bad players, and balancing your lines.
Ed even says you should avoid games where all your opponents play a TAG style. There's the rub…nearly everyone and their mother knows and plays a TAG style. Sorry folks, but the easy money in online poker is a thing of the past. Now it seems the real money is in writing e-books.
|
|
|
9:03 pm
July 5, 2009
|
Renji
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
amw25 said:
I have read this book and must warn people that, quite frankly, the methods do not work. I do believe that they worked at one time (years ago) but applying these methods in today's game you will lose your shirt. The book is NOT worth $100, nor even $40. There's really nothing special here as nearly everyone I talk to knows about player profiling software, c-betting, turn barreling, isolating bad players, and balancing your lines.
Ed even says you should avoid games where all your opponents play a TAG style. There's the rub…nearly everyone and their mother knows and plays a TAG style. Sorry folks, but the easy money in online poker is a thing of the past. Now it seems the real money is in writing e-books.
I haven't read through the entire book yet, but I've found that it has really helped my game. Granted I may not be as experienced as you are, but I feel that there is a great deal of merit in this book.
Whats your email? I want to hear a bit more about what you have to say, but I don't think itd be appropriate here. email me at aberfoyleboi@hotmail.com
|
|
|
12:37 am
July 6, 2009
|
Sunny Mehta
| | |
| Admin
| posts 67 | |
|
|
Post edited 7:41 am – July 6, 2009 by Sunny Mehta
Post edited 7:46 am – July 6, 2009 by Sunny Mehta
Post edited 7:48 am – July 6, 2009 by Sunny Mehta
holy poorly-supported generalizations, batman.
amw25 said:
I have read this book and must warn people that, quite frankly, the methods do not work.
my personal experience (and results) disagree. while i keep my sn private for writing-fodder reasons, if you're creative you can find places on the interwebz where i've posted screenshots of hand samples.
I do believe that they worked at one time (years ago) but applying these methods in today's game you will lose your shirt.
plz cite which specific methods you think “don't work” and why you think they don't work.
The book is NOT worth $100, nor even $40. There's really nothing special here as nearly everyone I talk to knows about player profiling software, c-betting, turn barreling, isolating bad players, and balancing your lines.
first you said the methods “don't work”, now you say that “they're really nothing special” because everyone knows about them. why would everyone know about them if they don't work? there's a disconnect there. so, which is it?
Ed even says you should avoid games where all your opponents play a TAG style. There's the rub…nearly everyone and their mother knows and plays a TAG style. Sorry folks, but the easy money in online poker is a thing of the past. Now it seems the real money is in writing e-books.
we specifically say:
1) 1-2 online games are tough these days (in fact, we say it in the intro)
2) you should practice good game selection (which, again, in my experience is very much possible), and you should try to avoid tables with all good players
3) since you will often have no choice but to play against smart, thinking players, we give the reader many examples, concepts, weapons and ideas on how to play against them.
plz tell me what you think doesn't make sense about the above.
fyi, if the response to this post is more generalizations rather than engaging intellectual debate, the thread will be locked on the basis of trolling. but until then, you have ample opportunity to respond in a manner that is appropriate (and perhaps even beneficial) to the spirit of this forum.
|
|
|
11:39 am
July 6, 2009
|
Sh0e
| | |
| Member | posts 13 | |
|
|
I think that while "everyone knows" about barreling, stealing, not sitting with a table full of TAG's… much of the value of a book is in hearing (or in this case, reading) something that is said, in a profound way to whoever is reading.
For me, I've read many poker books (>20); I'm subscribed to some of the video instruction sites; I participate in forums relatively actively …and honestly, I'm still at a low (NL50) level of play.
*I've so far read ~50 pages of this book*, so I can't really comment on the value of this book. In most poker books I read though: I invariably find tips, thoughts, etc. that I find thought-provoking to me… and this book is (so far) no exception.
As I said though, all of this reading hasn't made me crush the games, or move up, or whatever… which leads me to what I'm trying to get at:
No matter what book, video, forum thread, etc. that you have seen or heard… the simple act of doing it doesn't make you a better player. (I guess it's a fact that I'm just figuring out as I write this.) It's about taking that information, (and as it relates to poker) really through the work figuring out the meaning of why the authors will say 'do this' (e.g. CR this flop because…)
You can't just be told "CR this flop…" and just BE GIVEN the faith/heart to do it when the situation seems to arise. You can only KNOW it if you go to work figuring out WHY it's a move you HAVE TO make. IN THAT REGARD (while I think the TS is just trolling), I actually agree with what he is saying. And I'm hoping that this book really guides me to learning HOW TO get to that level of understanding.
I bought this book at the suggestion of a fellow player (saying how great he thought the book is). I'm hopeful that there will be a real "next-level" of development in store for my game.
*One thing that does concern me is the quality of games in the future, but I guess that's a completely other topic. 
|
|
|
6:13 pm
July 6, 2009
|
PB
| | |
| Member | posts 4 | |
|
|
Post edited 1:13 am – July 7, 2009 by PB
@ShOe I'm not concerned with the games of the future. In fact, I think the book does an excellent job of preparing us for the games of the future.
Applying what the book(s) teach you is the next stage of development. What I really like is that although the book provides a plethora of examples, it doesn't tell you what to do in a certain situation. I have to figure that out for myself through trial and error – that's why keeping 50 – 100 BI in the bankroll is necessary.
As described by Sunny above, table selection is an extremely important skill to apply. Knowing what is a “good” game and what isn't in the middle of battle (provided that you can change tables), helps apply the concepts as well. However, what I'm finding is that many players are indeed playing a “fit and fold” strategy preflop and post flop. I don't know why that is the case…but my only problem is to figure out who is and who isn't playing that style so that I can adapt.
@amw25 I was an average NL player and a solid limit player. So far, applying some of the techniques that the authors wrote, I still have my shirt plus a few extra dollars (more than I paid for the book) as my game has already improved (faster than I would have expected).
I would agree with the slight premise from you that the games are tougher, but good players adapt. Everyone would like everything to be very easy – working hard and studying seems to be a thing of the past.
|
|
|
11:30 am
July 9, 2009
|
Matt Flynn
| | |
| Admin
| posts 115 | |
|
|
I just want to say here that anyone who brings up something negative about this book and is concrete about why will never be messed with. You will not have your posts touched or be banned. This isn't 2+2. We do not censor people just because we do not agree with them or they criticize use.
In fact, if we end up agreeing with you, we will change the text.
Anyway amw25 we have hundreds of thousands of hands saying this stuff works. If something is not working for you, get specific and I will respond and try to help find where the problem is. Again, if you show yourself right, we will change the book. This is a meritocracy.
|
|
|
5:36 pm
July 9, 2009
|
JJS
| | |
| Member | posts 48 | |
|
|
OK I'm gonna put in my $2 worth (yeah I know it' s supposed to be 2 cents but hey, inflation you know…  )
1) I was a bit taken aback by Renji saying "it may not be appropriate here, let's talk via e-mail". Have you guys been discussing this? Do you get the impression that the authors are crybabies that will ban you for disagreeing with them? I see the authors saying "Hey dudes bring it on.". I bet all three of them would be more than glad to have someone teach them a thing or two for a change.
2) Having said that, to the authors I say this – don't be afraid to censor a poster who clearly is trolling. They (and other trolls) will say "hey the authors can't take criticism" but that's just to make you feel guilty so they can troll again. And I know this from experience – when someone starts talking about my field of expertise, I can tell right away whether they are faking it or whether they have really put in the work. I know you guys are experts, you have put in your time, and you can do the same thing. Talk with the people who are trying hard and putting in the work, and get rid of the fakers. You can tell the difference.
|
|
|
10:05 am
July 10, 2009
|
Michelangelo
| | |
| New Member | posts 2 | |
|
|
amw25 said:
I have read this book and must warn people that, quite frankly, the methods do not work.
This book has not been out long enough for anyone in its intended audience to:
1. Properly study it (note I said study, not read)
2. Assimilate the concepts
3. Impliment the concepts
4. Play enough hands for significant sample size.
Studying the material and playing are not separate, sequential tasks. You have to study, play, study some more, play some more, repeat. I cannot imagine the OP has done this properly. I know that I have not, so I am not yet qualified to speak to the ultimate effectiveness of the book.
|
|
|
7:21 am
July 12, 2009
|
Brandon
| | |
| New Member | posts 2 | |
|
|
Post edited 2:22 pm – July 12, 2009 by Brandon
Wow. Someone saying this book is not worth the money is unbelievable. I have read many poker books and all of them had something that helped improve my game. I think the initial poster may want to check out some of Dr. Alan Schoonmaker's material.
This book is very insightful. Any thinking poker player in the world could read this book and find informative information. I can personally say these authors brought my game out of the negative and into the positive with their prior books. I haven't even read half of this book and feel as I was given a gift.
To Ed, Matt, and Sunny……apprecaite the money you have put in my pocket. I will gladly put a small percentage of it back in yours.
To everyone else………be the person who says, ” I learn something new everyday”
This book is overflowing with knowledge, you just have to have the mind to receive it.
|
|
|
8:39 am
July 16, 2009
|
threads13
| | Indianapolis | |
| Member | posts 9 | |
|
|
I personally think it's an excellent book. It contains great information and it is extremely well-written(both not coming as a shock to me). I do think amw25 is a bit off his rocker. Actually, it's not really much of a matter of opinion… it's more of a matter of fact. I can attest to the fact that the strategies in this book do indeed work. This book really describes the way that I play. I can say that the "methods" in this book have worked for me over a significant sample as they have for Sunny as well. Definitely buy this book if you want to beat the games online.
Also, I love the stuff at the end in the "Beyond $1/$2" section. The balancing concepts have always been very interesting to me. I think understanding this stuff leads to a deeper understanding of the game. Is there any suggested further reading that gets into the math and game theory stuff?
|
|
|
2:44 pm
July 16, 2009
|
midnite flyer
| | |
| Member | posts 3 | |
|
|
hi, all.. I am new to SSNLHE, also relatively new to internet forums. So, can someone tell me what "trolling" is??? Sorry to ask such a stupid question, but I'm just learning…
Thank you.
|
|
|
3:24 pm
July 16, 2009
|
Guitierez
| | |
| Member | posts 3 | |
|
|
|
4:50 pm
July 16, 2009
|
Sh0e
| | |
| Member | posts 13 | |
|
|
This may or may not be interesting…
I think the main thing I've gotten so far out of this book is to return back to "correct" online 6-max general strategy. Over this past year, I've probably played 200,000+ hands (NL25-NL100). My ceiling thus far, seems to be NL100. As you'll see below, I am a confirmed winner at NL50…
Many thousands of those total hands have been at NL100, and I haven't been able to get into the green (the good color in HEM winnings). During that course, I got it in my hand that I needed to re-evaluate my game. Here is a general snapshot of my style (at NL50 only; not combined with my NL100 or 25 stats, as they are quite different than when I'm in my comfort level, so to speak), as I rolled up my bankroll to take a shot at NL100:
86,000 hands, 24/18/2.39, AgFrq 32.3, 3B 6%, St 34%, +9bb/100
After getting beat (at NL100), I tried finding a few leaks in my game, and thought incorporating them would be the difference. I learned that I was losing money in BTN steal situations in most Ax hands, JT… and as a result, I removed them from my steal range. (I also took down my general stealing quite a bit as a result.) I adopted this strategy over the course of the next few months:
50,000 hands 18/13/2.83, AgFrq 29.6, 3B 5%, St 24% +2.6bb/100
This was a pretty frustrating time. I had a pretty bad stretch (including a losing month I think). And I thought, since I was playing tighter (i.e. right), I was more entitled to winning. And I still lost at NL100.
This lasted til recently. I bought the book. And very generally, the big thing this book has done is helped me re-discover my previous ways, primarily why it's important to Steal… (it has also made me more aggressive in specific spots; that's still a bit hit-&-miss, but at least I'm erring on the side of aggression ). My stats this month:
13,000 hands, 19/15/2.86, AgFrq 32.7, 3B 6%, St 30% +15bb/100
This is the value of the book for me, thus far. I suppose you can say it has "already paid for itself" in this small sample. The true test of this book is, if a year from now, I'm on here talking about NL200 hands (as opposed to NL50, NL100 hands). I'm not saying that I will… I'm not saying that I won't. But so far, I'm satisfied.
|
|
|
6:34 pm
July 16, 2009
|
Size12font
| | |
| Member | posts 5 | |
|
|
Lots have been said already.
Simply put if this book makes you 1 extra buyin your life it's already paid for itself. I can personally say it's helped my LIVE game so much. This with Professional No-limit has built me a strong game to play live.This is one of my favorite poker books and like most educational books it pays for itself.
I normally play 50nl and 500 live —-and I can defiantly confirm there are plently of fishes left in the world.
|
http://www.size12font.com/blog/
|
|
|
10:41 am
July 17, 2009
|
jdk050507
| | |
| Member | posts 13 | |
|
|
After reading the above post by AMW25, and actually giving it serous consideration, I would like to be one of the many people that can say "my results so far prove that this book is worth it, and that amw25 is wrong".
The authors did NOT put out an easy 'get-rich-quick scheme'. This book requires allot of work/time/effort/sweat/blood/tears/etc.
Also, its amazing to me that every time someone has a post or question, ONE OF THE AUTHORS THEMSELVES is usually there responding……even if it is someone disagreeing with them. Where else can you find that? Seriously?!…..is anyone else amazed by this?
My only complaint about the book is there is so much useful information in it that I can't even get through 10 pages wtihout having to re-read and study it.
|
|
|
|
|
2:33 pm
July 18, 2009
|
Rocketfingers
| | |
| Guest
| | |
|
|
I don't know why everybody post in this topic. I think the guy was only bluffing :D
|
|
Login
Search 
Home
Print this Post 
Add a New Topic
Reply to Post
Quote and Reply 
Topic RSS 
