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The Freeze Play

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11:31 pm
June 21, 2009


jz1014

San Marcos, TX

Member

posts 32

I have a question about the hand on page 108 and about the freeze play in general. Ok, so lets say we play the hand this way and get to the river, and instead of one of the draws getting there we instead get a total brick (say the 3 of hearts). We have $180 behind and the pot is upto $145. In this scenario are we value betting the river if checked to? I assume the answer is yes, so the bigger question is how much are we betting? The min raise on the turn has bloated the pot and left us in a spot where it would suck to bet/fold. Most hands that beat us are probably shoving over our raise on the turn, most draws are probably folding a blank river (they lost their chance to bluff effectively when they just called the turn imo), so that really only leaves AJ/AT or maybe a timidly played two pair that will call our river bet. If we bet small (as we probably should), are we really committed at this point if he comes over the top?

I guess I am just confused because this play seems to setup a lot of free showdowns that we would like to take… but at the same time it makes betting safe rivers more complicated imo. Maybe I totally missed something and I should go back and reread the section again (in fact I plan to do just that), but if anyone could shed some light on this play I would appreciate it.

2:12 am
June 24, 2009


MNFC

Member

posts 5

+1 very good question imo. As a player who still very often misses value on the river, I'd surely check behind a ton of bricks in this spot, being satisfied enough with the little extra value I got on the turn. Now if we were to really go for thin value, what would be the best play here against this "decent 23/19 player"? A value shove (looks real spewy to me though) hoping for a hero call or a small bet that could induce a reraise by missed draws?

The other concern I see, especially against decent opponents, is going to a free showdown when we check behind and letting villain see what we minraise the turn with. How about the next times we want to use this line again? Isn't it easily exploitable unless we start balancing it with our monsters, sacrificing some value to good draws?

1:14 pm
June 24, 2009


Sunny Mehta

Admin

posts 67

You guys bring up excellent points. Let me share a few thoughts.

In theory this play doesn't work optimally against a very smart, tricky opponent because, yes, he can come over the top on the turn, he can bluff raise a small river bet, he can see your hand at showdown and then not cooperate next time, etc. However, in practice I don't find this to often be the case. When a tricky opponent sees that min-raise, it's SO tempting for him to just call rather than pull the trigger on a big reraise that he often will still call, even if he kinda knows what you're up to. But I agree that against a player like this you should either not use this play too often, or you should balance it by minraising with strong hands.

Now, against tight, predictable opponents this play can work pretty damn often, as they'll usually give you perfect information. To answer the OP about the river in that scenario, it all comes down to your read. If you aren't sure where you're at, just check behind. If you're totally locked in that he has a worse queen, bet as much as you think he'll call. If you are sure he won't bluff raise you regardless, but you aren't sure if he has a queen or better-than-a-queen, make a small value bet with the plan of folding to a raise. Small value bets are ninja.

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