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Turn Bluffs

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5:04 pm
November 15, 2009


Thomas Edwards

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There's been some conflicting advice between the book and 2p2 theorum's I've been considering,

Ok, Clarkmeister's Theorum, as the PFR we bet the 4th Flush card that falls on the river, because our range is polarized between nuts and air, and the board favors our range over the opponent's range because he either doesn't have a flush or our flush is usually bigger. So basically, we should be barrelling 4 Flush boards all day, but in the book Ed recommends turning the one card nut draw into a bluff. Vs a solid regular, should we be calling with the one card nut draw on the turn because he's going to barrel the 4th flush card? Essentially, vs fish, they freeze up on the flush, so we semi-bluff when fold equity is high and implied odds are low, but vs regs who barrel the flush every time we should be calling because we have implied odds and showdown value … no?

Next,

We're in position vs the pre-flop raiser, we called and we're deep. The board is Q52ss and our hand is 88s, the opponent bets and we call. The turn is Xs, we can assume he either value bets his Q or barrels his AKs etc. here. Now, we have show down value, but vs a 4th spade our showdown value is "meh" because neither the pair nor the flush can withstand his barrels (profitably IMO). Now, isn't using the "freeze play" here like way, way better than either semi-bluffing the nut flush draw or trying to get a pair with no redraw to show down? If we min-raise, he's going to hate it, because he's either shoving or calling given stack sizes with his pair or spade. Vs the Q, we get to hit our flush and check back, and vs the bigger spade we get to value bet. Worst case scenario, we're up against the Q and the big spade, in which case we get charged a little more vs a very narrow part of his range.

I ask, because every time I have a baby-flush draw on the Turn, I just discount it "because WTF isn't betting that river for value/bluff there?" The idea here, is to basically beat them to the bluff with out committing yourself to calling a shove. Their air and/or pot equity folds, their better hands fold (JJ-99) and we're getting a shot at either showing down our smaller pair or our smaller flush vs their bigger flush draw or bigger pair respectively.

4:44 pm
December 28, 2009


pythoneer

netherlands

Member

posts 10

I would be interested in the author's response too.  I'm not sure how to handle those situations you mention, I guess I would try one option and make a note for next time.

Well, at least the freeze play got you thinking.

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